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User talk:Emptylord/Collabs
Talk I made some changes to the kit I am making (3rd one), and with the numbers I am adding in the notebook he/they seem(s) balanced. Personally I would like the ability mechanics approach more. What are your thoughts on it? I hope you like the kit and I hope we can make the real one from that base. P.S. I'll ask User:Nhan-Fiction if he knows of any good artists that can do a splash art for the character? I call dibs on the pet. :D P.P.S Mind making a sketch of the beastmaster himself? Add in whatever you like, but don't forget the chain, I think it may be the key element to their 'bond'. :3 I personally dislike the leash because the only characters I can imagine using a leash are not the direction I imagined us taking. The only strong character trope I can think of that would use a leash is an evil/chaotic one, someone like Darius or Draven - i.e. someone akin to the champions from Noxus, Zaun, the Shadow Isles or the Void. Their definition of "pet training" probably includes torture. Both the beast and master would need to look appropriately demented and savage, with blood stains and the like; whips and chains and spikes. Whereas the direction I imagined was more of a shaman or monk-like character whose pet is more like a familiar. The human and animal work together because they want to - because they respect one another. *(I'm imaging that) You're imaging this: Wolf Lion, Orc *I'm imagining this: Wolf-thing, Stag, Owl I'm happy to pursue your direction — given you proposed the theme — and I have plenty of idea (now that I'm thinking of them). However, when you intially said "beastmaster" I interpreted master to mean that he has mastered them (like magic), rather than "alpha" (the master of the pack, top-dog). I am going to pursue the shamanism direction if we don't take it in this collaberation. Emptylord (talk) 21:33, August 18, 2013 (UTC) The champion needs to be affiliated. A champion who would leash their "companion" needs to have a ripe backstory or reason for being - such as being a part of the Noxian military, or another malicious being of the Shadow Isles. You don't just get a man from nowhere appearing at the entrance of the League with several dogs only being held back from slaughtering everyone by chains. You could make the pet a cerberus and have this champion from the Shadow Isles; or simply "The Noxian Beastmaster" or "Wolf Handler". Your kit doesn't actually have any form of mobility that I can see (i.e. there's no dash or charge, or "The pet attacks this location"), so I'm going to assume that the pet is controlled be Alt + Right Click? If you wish to pursue this mechanic then I must insist that we also propose an improvement to the pet control system (namely, the ability to choose a hotkey - because I would immediately reassign Alt + Right Click to T, or one of my extra mouse buttons). Emptylord (talk) 21:33, August 18, 2013 (UTC) So, maybe the leash was a bad idea. I think it could be a 'transparent one', indicating if the pet is too far away, it will be back via blink or huge movement speed buff. I was imagining if the 'master' was lost in a jungle while on an expedition, and on the way he found a wounded 'beast', which after he nursed it back to health, he tried to set it free, but it decided to stay with him. Hence they become a battle team. Think of the hunter and his 'dog' from Ben 10:Omniverse. Similar looks maybe, but when it comes to the armor, maybe just add a skull shoulder pad? The place of origin, rather may be Independent, such as Nami, which I stated in User:Emptylord/Collabs. I think we need more of these individuals in League. :As for the mechanics, we could do the same thing you mentioned. That may raise the difficulty of the champion, but I always like changes and new mechanics. So, Alt + Right Click is ok, but may be a bit frustrating, so I propose we follow your idea (T + Right Click). Also, have you decided on names yet? I've found one for the beastmaster, Domitor, which means tamer in latin. Seems good, yet in a way goofy, as a direct reference to the concept and lore. But, still good in my opinion. As for the pet, I am all ears to hear your suggestions for both the beastmaster and the pet. Commander Marko (talk) 21:50. August 18, 2013 (UTC) It's not a bad idea - it's just not what I imagined, and thus — up until now — I haven't made any effort to try and imagine it. Your crude lore description doesn't suit a champion who would chain up their pet. That lore sounds fine, butt if the animal chose to remain with him then it shouldn't be chained up. I'm fine with independent, but independent didn't suit the champion I was imagining from your "chained pet". The way you say "As for the mechanics, we could do the same thing you mentioned" implies that isn't how you meant it. How did you intend to control the pet? :Also - NO! Not {T + Right Click} - just {T}. I would "smart cast" my pet. It's the "Right Click" that is the problem because that is the same button you use to control the player - which means it's impossible to control both simultaneously. I am reasonably good with Annie because I can control Tibbers using the R button. However, this pet would not have the luxury of a "summon button" and thus would only have the option of Alt + Right-Click. I dislike Domitor because it resembles Dominate/Domination (and is probably where those words come from). If you intend to continue on the "me and my pet love each other" - the Domitor is a terrible name. ;) I have looked into names, but nothing has really inspired me yet. I briefly used "Dene" (pronounced Denny), which means something in some native language although I can't remember now - but I dunno. P.S. The channeled-remote-control does not suit a pet that can already be controlled, in my opinion. P.P.S. I honestly think that both themes are worth pursuing. Now that I've thought about a monster (refering to a horrible person) with a wolf-on-a-leash I'm actually imagining some fun things. If we can come up with two distinctive pets, we can likely create two distinctive champions. A wolf/lion is definitely more appropriate for the evil character, though. Emptylord (talk) 22:25, August 18, 2013 (UTC) I was in the middle of writing something when you moved the talk here, so as I was 'typing': I am thinking that we could make the ultimate available at l, and it can be ranked at levels 6/11/16. It could enhance the stats of the pet while adding a distinct bonus to the abilities, which could result in it being a passive ability. I am open to suggestions. :I am starting to think that the champion should be 'evil', like you mentioned. But at the same time I'm thinking of a neutral team which fights off anyone who threatens them. :A wolf could be the general idea, maybe add a slight mutation like bones or horns on some of its body parts and we get a unique beast. :P Commander Marko (talk) 22:30. August 18, 2013 (UTC) As in a level 1 "Channel to control your pet"? Emptylord (talk) 22:39, August 18, 2013 (UTC) Heavens, NO! A passive ability, perhaps. It could be activated to severely improve the pet's stats and abilities where the pet does the action, but having it at level 1 makes some sense. It could be ranked up at levels 6/11/16, to improve the pet's stats and the active part. Commander Marko (talk) 22:44. August 18, 2013 (UTC) I don't understand why that wouldn't just be an actual innate/passive - it definitely doesn't substitute an ultimate (especially when Elise gets a pet-steroid on her W). ;) I know you only mentioned Nami in passing, but this! This is a completely alien theme to anything we've currently discussed - but a nautical theme opens up new pet options (given cats and birds are taken). Actually, the nautical theme would work best on the "good beastmaster", and then a wolf for the "evil beastmaster". P.S. I hope that me coloring my sections is making this easier to follow. I can adjust the color if it's not bright/too bright. ^_^ That whole indenting thing is just awfully complicated. Emptylord (talk) 23:35, August 18, 2013 (UTC) So, an ultimate which passively increases the stats of the pet. It can be activated to further improve the pet's stats, sending it in a frenzy. The nautical theme seems a bit weird to me, like a ripoff of Aquaman and his pet dolphin. xD I am looking forward that we may eventually decide on the wolf as a pet, but should we make the character affiliated, but have one common enemy? P.S. I appreciate the coloring. It's ok as it is, so don't you worry. ;) Commander Marko (talk) 08:13. August 19, 2013 (UTC) You say "so an ultimate which..." like we agreed on something, when the only thing I said was that it sounds boring as fart. Also, I really don't think an activated pet steroid is appropriate for a controllable minion - the engine doesn't support controllable minions very well, as I've said, and this champion's ultimate is going to be dependent on that bad mechanic holding itself together. It feels bad enough on Orianna when you mess up her ultimate - this guy is just going to be in bad-feels city (and for a steroid it doesn't really seem worth the fuss anyway). And I don't say that because I have a better idea. I honestly can't think of any ultimate for a controllable pet. :/ If you hadn't have mentioned Aquaman, I would have created that champion without even remembering that Aquaman existed. If I had to name nautical themed characters with pets, I would have come up with Well, the Little Mermaid, etc, but Aquaman would never have occurred to me. I didn't even know he had a pet. ... and that was a very long-winded way of saying "it is by no means a rip-off". Although now you mention dolphin... ;) I'm still not sure that the controllable minion has merit for an entire kit. Something autonomous has room for skills which control it, such as Release The Hounds. You could even do the literal leash. Look at this this way - Orianna has 2 abilities which move the ball and 2 abilities which make the ball do something. Now imagine that Orianna could move the ball with Alt + Right Click. What would you change Attack and Defend to do? Given the fact you have to move the pet around manually, all of its effects are basically going variants of Dissonance (point-blank around the pet). :I guess you would just take a champion like Darius's kit and just have it all centered on the pet - AOE, on-hit effect, cone. But then - why is master even part of the kit? Also, that kit just sounds like worst part of Yorick * 2 - i.e. minions that harass mercilessly while Yorick is completely safe, which is incredibly frustrating, boring and hard to play against. *I: You have a pet that follows you around and attacks nearby enemies (similar to Elise), prioritizing your attack target or champions that are attacking you (I think this is Heimer's turret priority). The pet is leashed and cannot move more than so many units away. *W: You hurl a slab of meat at your target, marking them for some seconds. Your pet becomes frenzied and attacks the target - movement speed, attack speed, healing, you name it. *R: Release the hounds O, and while walking around, he should hold the leash shorter (like, with slack) - to allow for a walking animation where the dog looks like it's pulling on the leash.Emptylord (talk) 12:27, August 19, 2013 (UTC) I still cannot forget the cartoons I have watched while I was younger. Ah, Aquaman and his habit of hating math. :P Ok, so I think I might be making some gamebreaking stuff here. So, I thought of an idea, which I won't make it the official mechanic of the champion until I get your approval: The abilities are similar to those that are mentioned, with Lee Sin combos and stuff. But, I am listening and I would like the Orianna's Ball approach, most likely because I forgot about her, even though she is on free week. Damn you, ranked! :I love the passive you listed, which is unique, and it does make it interesting. I shall thus insert thy listed passive into the kit. :The W seems fine, I like the idea. Btw, that just made me hungry. xD :R will be the one I formerly deleted, but should I maintain the rule for 'using only certain abilities' or should the kit be pet-oriented, where as the pet does most of the work? Commander Marko (talk) 15:43. August 19, 2013 (UTC) If you're set on the Lee Sin mechanic, then the skills should probably be paired master-pet/pet-master. Although I'm struggling to think of skills that flow into one another on the chain-theme. I mean, I can think of skills that you would combo (like Resonating Strike and Tempest) - but not skills that flow into one another. Ummm: *W1: Crack The Whip - Master strikes his target, dealing physical damage and causing them to bleed for 3 second (granting sight). The stench addles his pet, taunting it and granting it bonus attack speed. The pets basic attacks increase the duration of the bleed by 1 second for a maximum duration of 7 seconds. You may cast Release The Hounds for 3 seconds. *W2: Release The Hounds - Master untethers his pet, granting it bonus movement speed and freedom to chase its target. The pet will return when the bleed ends. Although I don't actually think they lead into each other all that well. Emptylord (talk) 14:11, August 19, 2013 (UTC) I have 2 skills for the kit, and I like your idea, so that sums it up to 3. At least we have bases so we can tweak them a bit for the final product. I am still wondering if we could come up with an ult, or should we invite a third person to help us with just the ult? Commander Marko (talk) 14:15. August 19, 2013 (UTC) Okay so I've updated the article page. I've yet to really inspire myself on the Noxian Beastmaster, but the Nautical-Beastmaster definitely did. I'm thinking either an otter or a dolphin for the pet. ^_^ Emptylord (talk) 02:54, August 28, 2013 (UTC) I haven't been active that much, so please excuse me for my rudeness. Otherwise, I'm actually up for the nautical theme, really. I shall devise a kit as soon as possible! Commander Marko (talk) 18:46. August 28, 2013 (UTC) I don't find it rude. I've not given it much through either until yesterday. I definitely think we should pursue both - if I'm honest. I've updated the first page. ^_^ Emptylord (talk) 21:18, August 28, 2013 (UTC) Well, I've devised a kit for the Noxian Beastmaster, and roughly it seems somewhat balanced. I'll add it in a bit later in the day, I'm a little busy due to the start of school being near. Anyways, a side note: Do you know how to stop a losing streak? Cause I am on a losing streak for about 2 days sadly, and if this constantly happens, no Victorious Elise. :( Commander Marko (talk) 07:31. August 30, 2013 (UTC) It's possible you're tilting - a gambling term where losing causes you to behave irrationally, and thus lose more. You need to get the fact you're on a losing streak out of your head / convince yourself that losing isn't a problem. The added pressure of wanting the gold rewards probably isn't helping. :P Emptylord (talk) 14:30, August 30, 2013 (UTC) Over the years I've been losing my ability to keep cool, so I only have myself to blame. Anyways, I agree that Finn's W should be called Deluge. Seems more original. I propose that his ult should be some sort of 'flood effect', where he and his dolphin gain bonus movement speed and some other neat stats while in the flood area, while enemies are slowed by a smaller percentage. Think of 's W, only when ' is nearby'. Commander Marko (talk) 18:27. August 30, 2013 (UTC) Actually, I was propsing that Nautilus' skill should be called Deluge. There's lots of possible skill names for a water geyser - and Nautilus had to go and steal "Depth Charge". :P I'm open to coming up with new names for Finn's W, but Deluge doesn't suit a charge/dash. ;) The ultimate would depend on what role this champion assumes. I'm thinking either a fighter or an assassin type, in which case a steroid might be a bit meh - but I'm open to be convinced. Emptylord (talk) 18:49, August 30, 2013 (UTC) Maybe, Aquatic Assault? Commander Marko (talk) 18:47. August 30, 2013 (UTC) Finn's ultimate So I was... snooping through some of the water-themed heroes and champions of other MOBA games (because I was completely out of ideas) and Smite's Sobek has a really intriguing ultimate: Finn and Ebb dive beneath the waves, becoming untargetable and gaining an accelerating movement speed bonus. After 4 seconds, Finn and Ebb emerge from the waters dealing damage to surrounding enemies. }} Maybe: *Can be activated again early to emerge sooner: **Deals reduced damage **Deals no damage *The movement speed bonus only accelerates while **Moving toward a champion **Moving toward an injured champion *The movement speed bonus doesn't accelerate, a flat amount only applies while **Moving toward a champion **Moving toward an injured champion *Emerging knocks up enemies (would probably need to change Depth Charge - two knock ups would be a bit strong) **Only knocks up after the full duration **Knockup duration varies based on time spent submerged Your Trundle idea sort of inspired me, actually: Finn beckons the tide, causing an expanse of water to spill from Finn's position to cover a vast area. Finn gains bonus movement speed, attack speed, tenacity and ignores unit collision while on the expanse of water. }} Maybe *Also ignores terrain collision *The ripple at the edge of the tidal wave knocks-up *The ripple at the edge of the tidal wave gives a larger amount of movement speed.